Stretch Goals and the Power of Live Events, Episode 134

Episode Transcript

Carrie: Hey everybody! Welcome back to another episode of officehours.fm. Today I have a guest that I just got to meet in person a couple of weeks ago even though I’ve known her online for a while. Her name is Sara Dunn. Sarah? Hello and welcome to the show.

Sara: Hi Carrie. I’m really excited to be here. Thanks for having me.

Carrie: You betcha. Sara? For folks that have not come across you online yet would you do your elevator speech of who you are what you do?

Sara: Absolutely. I am based in Battle Creek Michigan. I run what I’ve decided to call a micro agency. My company’s name is 11web. I started it four years ago. It’s grown to a small team of three. We work with clients on WordPress, specifically Genesis website projects as well as graphic design and dabbling a tiny bit in social media and email marketing when we can.

Carrie: Awesome! Are most of your clients local to you or do you work with people all over?

Sara: Most of them are local here in Southwest Michigan. We don’t do any advertising. All of our work is word of mouth. So occasionally, someone knows someone farther away. We’ve done projects for clients as far away as Hawaii. We’re doing one in the state of New York right now and it’s all done remotely. My whole team is remote. We work from wherever we are. I personally love to travel so that works really well for all of us. It’s a great environment. We’ve learned how to communicate with clients no matter where they are.

Carrie: Ok, the Hawaii one? You should insist on in-person meetings.

Sara: (laughing) I would love it!

Carrie: You get to go to Hawaii. I’m sorry but we can’t really effectively do this project for you unless I’m in Hawaii talking to you in your office.

Sara: That’s right. I really need to get that personal feel for your business as well as the beach.

Carrie: I met you recently at SEO Bootcamp. For folks that are listening and don’t about it, it was an in person several day conference taught by Rebecca Gill. There was some serious hands-on, butt kicking SEO learning. Is that a fair assessment?

Sara: Absolutely. When I did a little video interview with Corey Miller, I said put on your seatbelt, because Drill Sergeant Rebecca takes over. It was great information. It was great to meet everyone.

Carrie: What you told me when we were there (and I really would love to have you share that on this episode and let’s dig into it a little bit). You shared the story with me of how you got to actually come to SEO Bootcamp. It started with you being at your first WordCamp in Ann Arbor and talking to a friend about wanting to go to this conference. Can you share that story?

Sara: Absolutely! WordCamp Ann Arbor was fantastic. First of all it was my very first WordCamp. I’m actually embarrassed that it took me four years to get to a WordCamp given that I’ve been part of this industry and working with WordPress for that long. 2016 was really my year of live events. I really decided to meet people in person and make the investment to go to events. As far as WordCamps go, I had the opportunity to go to one that was within driving distance. I just felt like I wasn’t sure if I wanted to make an investment to fly to a WordCamp and pay for a hotel and some overnight. Now I am kicking myself because it was just a wonderful experience to make connections with people in the industry. I finally felt like I was surrounded with people that spoke my language and people that I really admired. One of those people was Rebecca Gill. I don’t think I even told her this when we met, that she’s the reason that I use Genesis. Her blog and a lot of the things that she so freely shared online is something I’ve been following for years and the reason that I’ve been able to grow my business and take on more things and keep learning and serving clients. It was awesome at WordCamp Ann Arbor to be able to join Rebecca’s break out lunch. They did this on both days where you could actually go to lunch with one of the speakers or someone who was leading WordCamp. I had a wonderful time meeting Rebecca at lunch at WordCamp Ann Arbor. I had recently purchased her online course through DIY SEO courses. I was able to ask her one of my ton of questions that I had while I was going through the course. It was really cool to have that experience in person and ask her questions. So when she mentioned that SEO Bootcamp was coming up just three months later, I really wanted to go. I ended up looking it up on my phone and getting more information. You know I was a little bit disappointed thinking about how I might be able to afford to go.  It was a big investment.  I remember sitting in the final session at WordCamp Ann Arbor, I started texting my coworker Nancy. I said I’m sitting here. I’m thinking about my lunch with Rebecca Gill. I wish I could go to SEO Bootcamp but I just really don’t think it’s in the budget. She said to me you know what? That sounds really cool. Instead of thinking about how you can’t afford it, what do you need to do to make it so you can afford it? I loved that question! I had not thought about it that way. I said you know what? I think in order to afford the ticket and have enough profit and extra cash I really need to buckle down and I think I need to sell $18,000 worth of business from October 15th to December 15th. It was a period of about two months. I honestly never sold that much business or started that many projects in that amount of time.  I said you know what? I might as well set the goal and see if I can do it. You know I had a pretty tantalizing prize at the end of that goal. So I wrote it down. I shared it, which is really fun too.

Carrie: So you wrote down that you wanted to go to SEO Bootcamp. Then you said ok, in order to do this I need to reach 18 K in sales. Then take me from there, because that’s a big leap from saying I want to do this and I am identifying how much money I need to make in order to do this. What were those steps in between? How did you actually go out and get that business?

Sara: You know? I think the biggest thing that I did and the scariest part of it for me was actually talking about it and sharing that goal with other people. I just had this really strong feeling that I wanted support in trying to reach this goal. I wanted people to know what the goal was so I told my team in our monthly team email newsletter. Then I actually made (what I’m laughing at now as I’m looking at the wall) it’s a thermometer chart…the old-fashioned kind that you would put up.

Carrie: That’s awesome!

Sara: Yeah! When we were in elementary school doing fundraisers where they would put the giant thermometer on the wall and we’d fill it in when we got to a certain level of our goals. So I said you know what? I want a visual of this. I printed out a silly old thermometer chart and put it on the pin board in my office. I started filling it in. Not only did I fill it in but I decided to tweet about it too and kind of keep the world updated on the progress. Kindly, Rebecca saw some of my tweets and encouraged me to keep working toward it and see what I could do. It was the start of something great.  I’m just really glad that I put it out there and received so much support from the goal. As far as actually going out and selling the business, I had a lot of open proposals and things I hadn’t quite followed up on. I just decided to dig in, be relentless and see if I could get everything closed by December 15th so I could reach the goal. I honestly did not lose a bid during that timeframe. So it was just a great experience.  I’m so glad that I set the goal and looked at it from that perspective, both to learn the value of goal setting so that I could go to Bootcamp.

Carrie: God bless Nancy!

Sara: I know! I love my team. Nancy not only is our happiness specialist but she is just a great encourager. I am so glad that she’s in my life.

Carrie: That is awesome. What I really love about this (of course I’m glad you got to go to SEO Bootcamp and I’m thrilled that I got to meet you there) but SEO Bootcamp aside, the story of finding something that you thought would benefit your business and then instead of saying I can’t afford that. I can’t do it. You figured out a way to make that investment happen. I think that’s such an important message for freelancers and small business owners. As we look at you know our budgets…WordCamps are right up our alley. It’s $20 ticket. If you’re local you don’t have to spend money on airfare, hotel etc. When you start looking at industry conferences that may cost you thousands of dollars to go, it’s really overwhelming. Let’s say it’s not a conference. Let’s say that it’s a $200 plugin (something like Migrate DB Pro) that can save you hours of time. But you’re like ahh…that’s really expensive. Instead of looking at oh that’s so expensive I can’t afford it; it’s not in my budget to how do I generate enough business to make this doable? I love your tenacity. I’m interviewing you but I’m doing all the talking. I’ll shut up here in a second.

Sara: I appreciate your perspective. I think you’re right.  When you’re a freelancer or a micro-agency like mine, with what you spend money on, you realize how many hours you need to work to make that back or how many projects you need to book to make that back. You just have to encourage yourself to do it and figure out how much profit do you need to sell to pay your bills and make this investment. It’s definitely possible but you have to have the right mindset around it.

Carrie: Another really important key that you mentioned was saying it out loud and telling it to people because all the sudden when the world knows (the world being whoever’s on the end of your social media accounts) when you let the world know, let your friends and let your team know…even if they’re not bearing down on you or trying to hold you accountable…just the fact that you put it out there in the universe is like pressure. You’re like ok. I said it. I’ve actually got to do it now.

Sara: Totally. After I tweeted Rebecca Gill about my goal all I could think about was how embarrassing it would be if I was like “Oh Sorry”. I only got half way there or not even close. I knew I wanted to do it just to prove that I could.

Carrie: I love the thermometer.  Did you color it with Crayons?

Sara: Oh for sure. I used different color highlighters. It’s so funny. I’ve got a little blue section, a little green one, and a big yellow one. So it appealed to my creative side.

Carrie: Well in the show notes for this episode (they will be over at officehours.fm for you guys tuning in) I’ll see if I can get a picture of that the thermometer to post and inspire.

Sara: Yes. We’ll share the original tweet and then you can see it.

Carrie: All right everybody. We’re back. I’m chatting with Sarah Dunn. She is the owner of a micro agency up in Michigan. Sarah? When we were chatting a few weeks ago, you asked about what my thoughts were on really digging down and serving a niche audience versus a more broad audience. I’m curious, have you gone more niche or deep dive since then? I know it’s only been a few weeks.

Sara: You know? I’ve definitely continued to think about this because I love working with a variety of clients but I feel I have to reinvent the wheel every time I start a new project. I’ve noticed when I work with a couple clients in the same industry; I’m able to bring so much more to the project based on what we’ve learned through past projects. I have actually been working a little bit on a niche product that is Facebook ads for chiropractors. It’s not exactly a WordPress based project. We’ve discovered some really interesting things working with a chiropractor client about bringing him new patients and new appointment requests through Facebook ads. So I have started working with several clients in that space with that product. I would say we it’s definitely in the beginning stages.

Carrie: That is a very specific niche and service offering.

Sara: Yes. I’ve been calling it a micro niche. You know what’s interesting? I feel like there are a lot of people out there saying I do digital marketing for chiropractors. There are big agency’s saying that. But there isn’t someone whose cornerstone is I am the expert on Facebook ads for chiropractors specifically. So while I don’t intend to only do Facebook ads for this group forever, I think it’s a great way to get a foot in the door and become a little bit more known with this group of clients. Then I can talk to them about some other things that we can help them. For now, I’m having a lot of fun with it. I’ve found it makes it so much easier to come up with content that is specific and compelling as opposed to when I was attempting to write content for my 11web.com website where everything had to be so general to all sorts of audiences. It just kind of came out really blah.

Carrie: So you are writing specifically to educate the chiropractic community or writing about Facebook ads? How are you using that to plan your content?

Sara: Yes. I was specifically talking about some Facebook ads best practices and sometimes just Facebook best practices for chiropractors specifically.

Carrie: You know something that you mentioned there that I think is really important is, I’ve heard people say that they’re concerned that if they niche down too far maybe there’s not a market there, right? You get so mini micro that there are not actually any customers in that space. But what you said you are offering a very micro service. That’s how you’re getting in front of these clients. Once you’re in the door you can offer them a whole slew of services. I guess I was thinking like our websites that say I’m a developer, designer or agency. You can hire me to make your website. We want to appear that we do all of these things. Therefore, our marketing message is very generic. With you, you have made it very specific. That doesn’t mean you can’t offer those other things. It just means that you’ve now set yourself apart from other folks who do similar services. So very cool. Kudos!

Sara: Yeah, thanks!

Carrie: Wow! I just talked a whole freaking lot again.

Sara: I really think you should talk more on your own podcast. I don’t hear enough Carrie. So bring it on.

Carrie: No. So here’s the deal, Sara. The whole reason I have a podcast is so that I can get other people to give me 30 minutes of their time and just talk with them and learn from them. All I have to do is show up and ask a few questions. I let you guys do the rest. So let’s go back to live events, and how that had a significant impact in the course of your business this past year.

Sara:  Absolutely. Yes. Can we talk a little about SEO Bootcamp?

Carrie: Bring it on!

Sara: I really wanted to talk this through because Bootcamp is really the biggest investment I’ve ever made in my business. It is one of the most impactful. I just wanted to share that with anyone who is listening who might be considering going or considering going to some other big industry event or very important workshop on a topic they are really interested in. My experience was that I was trying to do my best for my clients. I had read various SEO materials…a blog post here or I’ll watch a video here and there. I thought I was doing right by them. Through SEO Bootcamp I found out that I was making some mistakes. I hated learning that because I always want to do the best job that I can to bring my clients more traffic and more visibility. On day one of Bootcamp I was like “Oh my Gosh”! I have some pages to fix. I know there are some pages that are keyword stuffed. I didn’t know any better. I was operating on old knowledge. Not only did I love meeting the people there and making connections but I know through the investment I made that we are going to do a better job for our clients. We are going to be able to put out better websites for them that are more easily found. That makes me feel good. I know that eventually, that can translate into the potential for increasing prices to align with that additional value. So it was an awesome experience.

Carrie: I love it. Of course, I don’t mind this being a tremendously large commercial for SEO Bootcamp. It’s something that I’ve supported with Rebecca and loved seeing her do. What you bring up is that you have this old knowledge that you’re working under. I think this there’s so much information out there it’s impossible to actually stay on top of it. Do you think that you would have (this is not a trick question) if you hadn’t gone to SEO Bootcamp would you have ever come across the “new knowledge” specifically in that SEO realm?

Sara: You know? I’m sure I would come across the new knowledge but I would have been a little confused as to what was correct and what really worked. The biggest thing I got out of SEO Bootcamp was the entire process from start to finish. I thought SEO was putting some keywords on a page, building out most of the website and then thinking about maybe tweaking the content to have some key words in it. I learned that was totally incorrect. The planning was so huge. I had so much fun with that keyword research, discovery and thinking about user intent. I was just blown away that the entire first day of Bootcamp with just about planning and research. We did not touch a website or a piece of content until the second day. That was incredibly impactful for me in the way that I approach SEO. I know it’s not an afterthought that you do at the end now.

Carrie: So for the folks who are listening (you just gave a good tip there with planning). You’re doing all of that before you ever sit down to write your content. Do you have a particular tool that you walked away with where you were like argh, this is my best new friend?

Sara: Oh my gosh! There were so many great tools that were introduced which were an added bonus. I had been doing some things manually. I learned that there were tools that could do it for me. I’m saving some time. I personally love kwfinder, which is Rebecca’s suggested plugin for analyzing volumes of search for different keywords, as well as suggesting related keywords for ones you have already selected. I’ll be keeping that one. I loved some of the other ones but they are pricey, fancy SEO tools. Eventually, I would love to get to the point where those are part of my regular process but they are not currently.

Carrie: Oh my gosh. That kwfinder? If you are tuning into the show go look that up. It will freaking blow your mind.

Sara: It’s so fun. For any total data geeks who are listening…just to see the different volumes and the way people are searching. I thought it was so interesting.

Carrie: Yeah! It even gives you like a little scale of how hard it would be to compete against content that’s already ranking for that. It’s like ok. If I’ve got a low score (like 30) that means I can totally go after this keyword and dominate it if I just write the right piece of content. It’s almost like (this may come across as terrible sounding) but it’s almost like gaming. You’re figuring out how to game the system. At the same time, you’re doing it by offering actually really great high-quality content. So the intent is not to misguide or mislead users but it’s like with a little bit of knowledge you can make such a huge difference.

Sara: Yeah definitely. It’s not about any system. It’s about creating a valuable piece of content around a search phrase that doesn’t have very good results for it yet. I hope that you’ve been doing that too, Carrie.

Carrie: Well? I think I have written all of one article since Bootcamp. It was optimized. I will say it was optimized. Time will tell whether it was optimized for something useful or not. I did my best. I’m still learning as well. So what’s on tap for you in 2017 in terms of conferences or educational things?

Sara: Great question. I am definitely planning to go to one or two more WordCamps. I haven’t selected which ones. I will definitely be going to WordCamp Jackson. I actually just submitted a topic for a speaker talk. Hopefully, I’ll be speaking at WordCamp Jackson in May.

Carrie: Yay!

Sara: Yeah, that will be my first one. I think that will be very fun. I would love to continue to go to different learning type workshops as well as a woman in business entrepreneurship summit that I also went to last year. That was really valuable. I really just learned in the last year the value of making those connections in person. I think that you can tweet at people online all you want to and call it a relationship, but until you have an in-depth conversation with someone you just can’t get the full value out of that relationship. I’ve got a little bit of a story. I was in great session at WordCamp Ann Arbor. A guy mentioned email automation for his agency and how they automate a lot of lead follow up and lead nurture through their agency website. I found that fascinating. I went up to him after the talk and asked him a little bit more about it. He hooked me up with the person on his team that actually set up the whole system. I stood out in the hallway with that guy for at least 25 minutes. He was answering my questions. He gave me his business card. It was just incredibly generous of him to share with me like that. It wouldn’t have happened if I just tweeted at him with a few characters and asked him a question. I’m finally getting it as far as live events. I’m looking forward to more of that 2017.

Carrie: You are so right. That reminded me of BeachPress, which was an event. I don’t think it’s in action anymore. But a few years ago it was like a WordCamp (except like MTV’s real life) where you get 20 people in a house together. These 20 people happen to be all WordPress developers and business owners (mostly developers). I remember one morning I was helping Andrew Norcross cook breakfast. In that process, I had a question about Design Pallet Pro, which was one of his plugins. There was something that had been bugging me. I couldn’t figure it out. I had spent a lot of time noodling on it. All the sudden I found myself making eggs with Andrew. He just answered my question right there. I was like thank you! Not that you have to find yourself in someone else’s kitchen…because that would be weird.  That has happened so many times at WordCamps where you ask are you having a problem with that? Let’s fix it. Before the weekend is up you’ve got something that was really weighing you down that you’re trying to figure out taken care of.

Sara: Yes. It would have needed a lot of support tickets and a lot of tweets back and forth to get the same answer.

Carrie: Well I hope WordCamp US, which is going to be in Nashville this year, is on your radar.

Sara: That sounds great! I haven’t been to US but I heard similar great things from other people at WordCamp Ann Arbor who were really excited about last years. Ok. I’ll put it on the list.

Carrie: Sweet! I know then I may see you once more in 2017.  Sara? Where is the best place to go for folks that are listening to the show to follow up with you, to see what you’re doing and take a peek over your shoulder?

Sara: Absolutely! Please feel free to check out my website at 11web.com.  I’m on Twitter @Sara11d. I really love Instagram. So if you’re an Instagrammer, feel free to meet up with me there @SaraDunn11.

Carrie: Ok. Jetta, your dog appears in many photos. I can testify that you should go follow her Instagram channel if you like cute dogs.

Sara: Yes. I love my French Bulldog. If you don’t like cute dogs definitely don’t follow me on Instagram. If you happen to love dogs with huge ears and adorable faces this is the place for you.

Carrie: Oh! The Internet needs more of that these days. It’s a dark place. Sara? Thank you so much for coming on the show. For those of you listening to this, you can get the show notes and any links from what we talked about today over at officehours.fm.

Sara: Thank you so much, Carrie!